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Welcome!! The forum where Gigapop/RON operators can rant, rave, and
be politically incorrect about current hot technical topics. |
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Now that the 2 R&E nets are acting
like competing vendors, how many neutral forums are left where free speech is
still possible? |
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TonightÕs discussion topics, 3
technical, 1 political: |
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More on MAX VRFs, v1 and v2: Dave Diller |
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More on bgp hinting: Brent Sweeny |
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CPS communities, troubleshooting: Caren Litvanyi |
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"It petered out with a sick
thud: two competing R&E nets for the foreseeable future, and
All ThatÒ: Dan |
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This is CarenÕs topic, but before she
starts on the technicals I wanted to do a quick informal poll: |
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How many operators in the room are
using either settlement-free services?
Which? Anyone using both
for eg backup/redundancy? (Dave Farmer?) |
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Both are growing, seem to be a useful
approach. IU runs CPS, PNW/Cenic TR, could be argued that having competition
might be a good thing. Or
not. Also different approaches
technically, VRFs vs separate routers (ASNs), pick the one you like. |
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So what are peopleÕs experiences? Any issues about transparency? (Where is TRÕs router proxy?) Routing? Anything to talk about? As services, how do they really compare? |
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OK, everyone is Totally Sick of this
whole topic. |
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Absolutely No One likes the way it is
now. |
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Serious brain drain out of the
community as the smart techies That Have Always Been the Core |
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Realize that R&E networking is now
more about CIO egos and religious loyalty than about doing cool stuff |
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So why not go off to Google or Amazon
where Things are Still Happening and make a lot more money? |
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The feud has trickled down to
customers, |
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Who see the divisiveness and lack of
direction and wonder if theyÕre spending their money well |
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Whereas RONs used to buffer them from
these issues |
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Almost everyone agrees that the current
state isnÕt sustainable. |
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Not enough money in the community for
both. |
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Zero sum game for customers leads to
Loyalty Paranoia |
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Neither one seems to be willing/able to
give up or fold. |
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Both are now having severe financial
issues, I2 laying off people, NLR having no real future funding model, etc
etc. |
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So this Òdeath gripÓ really canÕt
continue for very long. |
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So I think that theyÕre |
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going to kill each other off and people
are going to walk away from both and build the next generation. ÒR&E v6Ó (NSFnet v1, vBNS v2, Abilene v3, NLR
v4, Newnet v5) |
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Seriously, what would such a Òv6Ó look
like? |
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It better not be under any 1 set of
CIO-typesÕ control. |
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If we make that same mistake again, of
creating another I2 or NLR under another name, |
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we might as well all go home and call
it quits. |
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So I think itÕll be a Different Animal. |
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No central control, built by the top
Rons tossing lines to each other.
The original Quilt-net vision. |
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Guess what? This is already happening for research waves. |
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Of course, the independent Quilt
management committee has officially disavowed this approach <for now>. |
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A source of low-cost non-I2 non-NLR
non-Level 3 10G lambdas from a vendor like Qwest would facilitate this. |
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ÒThatÕs fine for research waves, like
MAX can toss lambdas west to CHI, north to NYC, and south to ATL, and string
vlans hither and yonÓ |
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ÒBut what about the IP network?Ó |
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WhoÕs going to pay for a common set of
routers |
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run by smart folks like our friends at
IU |
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for reliable/consistent service &
advanced functionality. |
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I donÕt really have the answer to that. |
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Lack of consistent routing
policy/platforms could be a disaster.
Might try something poorly conceived and fail. |
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Plus throwing away all the work done by
I2 and NLR. |
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Will RONs have the smarts/courage to
meet this challenge? I donÕt see
much alternative. |
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